Science Depends on Freedom: An Example

The following is an excerpt from an interview with Leslie H. Gelb, New York Times journalist, featured on CNN's documentary series Cold War (Episode 22).

I had a meeting in Moscow with Marshal Ogarkov, the chief of staff of the Soviet Armed Forces. And he said, "You know, all modern military capability is based on the computer. You have little kids in America 3 years old who know how to deal with computers! It takes years here to train Soviet recruits in the military to use them because they've never used them before. We're afraid of computers! If we start deploying computers, it's going to mean loss of political control for the Soviet leadership."

The script of this episode is available at

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Created 2000-04-08, last updated 2005-04-13.